Now that the NDA is lifted I might as well post this here. I put this in a PM to someone when they asked me my opinion on TOR. They suggested that I post it, it was on a leak site, but I thought it would probably just stir up the fanbois and haters. Well, now that we can I might as well post my thoughts in one of my favorite haunts.
My opinion on TOR? Well, I guess it goes back to an interview a couple of years ago. I think it was with Daniel and he mentioned something which has stuck with me. He said they were putting the RPG back into MMORPG. They wanted to bring back the feeling of being kids sitting around the kitchen table playing D&D, something along those lines. Considering that my main attraction to MMORPG's is the MMO part, that statement didn't sit to well with me. I've always had this nagging feeling that putting the RPG back in MMORPG might result in taking out to much MMO.There is another line I recall from a tester but I don't recall exactly who it was, it was along the lines of, "The Old Republic is the best single-player MMORPG ever made." If you compare TOR to another MMORPG like WoW, they line up pretty well. Each has solo quests, talent trees, group quests, battlegrounds, dungeons, quest hubs, raids, etc, etc, etc... However TOR does not "feel," as much, like an MMO to me. Last weekend, for me, TOR "felt" like post-Cataclysm WoW, not WoW's first year.
I know people getting in each others way is a common complaint about MMORPG's. I think it was an interview with Blaine a year or two ago where he, unprompted, addressed that complaint by saying they may rely more on instancing than people are used too. Well, while those crowds can be a pain, they are also a significant part of what makes an MMO feel like its a massively multiplayer online experience. Something, in my opinion, that is now largely missing from "phasing" friendly post-Cataclysm WoW and was mostly absent from last weekend's Beta event.
Now I did encounter other players while out and about. Yet the, for lack of a better word, "feel" was different. That feeling of something missing went beyond just the "MMO" part and was also part of the zones themselves. My favorite zone in early WoW was The Barrens. The reason it was my favorite was because it was the zone that felt most "alive" to me. Lots of wildlife that mostly seemed uninterested in me. I got a little of that feeling from Balmorral but not much. None of that feeling from Korriban or Dromund Kaas. I noticed its absence.
I understand why the zones are not as populated with neutral wildlife as I would like them to be. I understand the leveling curves, processing needs, framerate issues, etc, etc... Facts rarely change feelings. I even think I might understand why TOR feels "lonelier." Companions. Apologies for drawing on the WoW analogies again, but it is one of the most widely known frames of reference. Hunters in WoW were frequently reviled and the subject of derision. I recall them frequently being thought of as a "solo" class. I couldn't hope to count the number of times I read a Hunter claim "my pet can tank."
With a pet the possibly subconscious desire to group, "strength in numbers," is significantly undermined. Well in TOR, after the first few hours of content, every class is a "pet" class. Not only is every class a pet class, but they can even cover healing roles as well. Why bother even attempting to be social when you have a faithful interactive follower that, depending on Companion, can dps, tank, or even heal. The classic "trinity" of MMORPG's available... solo.
Now I should point out that I did have more fun than I expected to. As I've said before, in my opinion, TOR is WoW with Lightsabers and that "with Lightsabers" part adds more than most might expect. However, I soon discovered that TOR was missing the "feel" of an MMORPG. At least the "feel" that I was looking for. Unless that feeling was just missing because of the conditions of the event, it will affect how long I keep paying to keep playing this game.
Of course TOR may still be wildly successful. Maybe this is the kind of game the market actually wants now. Though Cataclysm's failure to significantly expand WoW's subscription base isn't a favorable sign. Whether TOR ends up "hot" or "flop" I suspect my subscription will not last more than a couple of months. Though that is an improvement since, before the event, I didn't expect to be playing TOR passed the first thirty days.
Apologies for the length but its a question that deserves an in depth answer.
By the by, I should also note that I only got to the fourth planet by the time the event ended. It very well might get better later on.
I didn't take many screenshots, I did but didn't realize the in-game screenshot feature was disabled, but here are a couple and a short video.
The video was a request to see how the first female body type, I call it "Twiggy" looks in-game. Its short audioless and clicky but its in HD and shows what it needs to.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epUaL3Fr_kg[/youtube]
Here are the settings I was using when I recorded it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/CRuU3.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NLRLW.jpg[/img]
A pic of my Pureblood Warrior.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1UKgc.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4392s.jpg[/img]
Here is one showing Vette with a different skin. I really like zapping her with her collar.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EqDjr.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/MJmFy.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/BOxj2.jpg[/img]
My fps varied from the teens to the fifties and I'm running an E6600 2.4 GHz, 4 Gigs (though only 3.25 used), and a 6850 with a Gig.
Posting And You...
Thanks for that, SirRobin. I haven't been part of beta (I did, in the end, receive a kay but didn't use it) but kept abreast of all the updates and others' opinions, and the conclusion I came to was pretty much what you said.
I'm still looking forward to it, but I don't think it will rock my gaming world to the same extent as WoW did.
...things I say...
As always, I imagine once I run out of the storyline, I will only play the game for so long. Still, I rather enjoyed the Imperial Agent as a healer so you never know. Though maybe I will enjoy the endgame with this one unlike the others, you never know.
with those system specs surely you could have put the textures and stuff up to high? medium settings look dung.
the man who asks questions may be called an Idiot for a while, the man who asks nothing remains an idiot forever
True, though at the time I was more interested in just getting stable fps and burning through content as quickly as possible.
Posting And You...
I don't disagree with SirRobin's analysis, but my personal takeaway is different. I'm loving SWTOR and I expect to be playing it for quite some time.
Is SWTOR just WoW with Lightsabers? Maybe, but not exactly. I agree that the emphasis on storyline and companion changes the feeling of the game. I don't argue against the point that putting the RPG back in MMORPG takes out a significant amount of MMO. I'm just not sure that I'll miss it that much. I've also heard SWTOR described as KOTOR III with a subscription. That's not completely off the mark, and I'm good with that.
Maybe my personal situation is part of the reason. I'm forty years old, with a relatively full offline life (family, social, and professional). I'm not really looking to games for socialization as much as entertainment and a little escape. WoW isn't bad - I've played since just after launch - but I frankly find the social aspect annoying as often as I find it rewarding. I don't really care to hear some prepubescent emo complain that I'm slowing him down getting is phat lewt by pulling 2% less DPS than theoretical maximum. And I don't have the luxury of committing myself to a five-night-a-week raid schedule to advance either my character or my involvement in my guild. Does all that mean I'm not really an MMO player and I should just stick to single-player RPGs? Maybe it does.
But I do enjoy sharing the same virtual space with others, either in cooperation (PvE) or combat (PvP). My most memorable gaming experiences, like those of most other people who play MMOs, have to do with interactions with other players rather than with the environment. And the validation of actually seeing that I'm not the only adult "geek" out there enjoying this form of recreation is worth something too. I'm just the type that tends to share my onling gaming time with a smaller group of friends (most of whom I know in real life) rather than dozens of virtual buddies.
So, we've established that my online personality is both casual and borderline anti-social. :-) Where does that leave me for SWTOR? Frankly, the game feels like a great fit. From my experience with the beta, I can do almost everything I've encountered in the game with a single friend, plus our two companions. To continue the WoW comparison, instead of two leveling experiences (Horde vs. Alliance), I'll have eight. Sure there's overlap between class stories. There's plenty of overlap between Horde and Alliance. But the class stories seem distinct enough to keep me interested, even with the overlap.
My expectation of SWTOR is this: I'll level a toon of each class to max level, sometimes solo, sometimes with my small group of real-life friends that are also going to be playing the game. We'll talk about the storylines or the game mechanics around the coffee pot or while our wives are talking about ... whatever is is they talk about. ;-) Occasionally I'll run with larger groups of people, and I'll probably try out a few pickup raids here and there. I'll never see Darth Malgus, unless I come back to him after an expansion raises the level cap and I can handle him with my less-than-the-best-but-better-than-original-epic gear as part of a nostalgia raid. But as slow as I level (remember, I don't get to play all that much) I'm probably good for at least a year, maybe more, without even worrying about whether the end game is compatible with my habits and desires.
Long story short, this game feels like a pretty good fit for me. If it isn't for you - that's okay too. That's why there's more than one game on the market. Play whatever you enjoy. Even if SirRobin and I might disagree on some other things, I suspect we could both agree on that. :-)
ive enjoyed this weekends beta heaps. if anything it's just made me unsure which class to play at launch. the trooper, JK and consualr were all great fun. I had a go at bounty hunter as well since its the only empire one i,ll give a go and it was heaps of fun as well.
Cant wait for release
the man who asks questions may be called an Idiot for a while, the man who asks nothing remains an idiot forever
Well I got a Consular up to 24 to join my Warrior at 24. Really my opinion is unchanged. I like it more than I expected too but I really can't say how long it will manage to keep me.
Posting And You...
Ach but thats saying nothing imo. I dont think the MMO will ever be made that will keep me longer than 6 months nowadays. unless you raid or get into player housing or are heavy into PVP a month or 2 at max level and its boring. I dont have the time or inclination to get into that stuff now. I still enjoy my journey to max level and a few alts perhaps , but thats it for me no matter how good the MMO is. So with that in mind TOR will kill 6 months perhaps which is pretty great in my book.
the man who asks questions may be called an Idiot for a while, the man who asks nothing remains an idiot forever
At first I thought it wouldn't last more thatn a month for me but after the last two beta events I can see it lasting two or three. Of course it will greatly depend on how good the endgame is.
Posting And You...
I have been a beta tester since day one and have made level 50 twice, Bounty Hunter Powertech-Shieldtech Tree and Jedi Counsler Sage-Telekinetics (both classes were very fun). I find much of what was said in the OP is true.
The game has a lot of great features most of which revolve around solo play and combat. You can solo all the way to level 50 in less than 2 months if you are a frequent casual player. Hard core players will make it in less than a couple of weeks. Preset small guild groups will demolish everything, the heroic zones are a bit less than heroic. The Flash points are the games best feature, in my opinion, and there really is not enough of them.
I give the game credit in the combat and abilities department; all the classes are fun and their abilities enjoyable. Personal stories are very fun and the reason why I am still buying the game.
The game falls way short on a few things that just makes it seem weak for the long haul as an MMORPG. I will start with the things I hope can be fixed with in the first 6 months or less if Bioware cares or listens to the masses who have been posting by the tons on their Beta fourms.
The UI: this thing is so ridged and archaic, you can not move anything or resize anything it's just horrid for a year 2000+ MMO UI. By level 50 the UI can not comfortably fit all your abilities and with only two bottom center hotbars everything feels crampt and awkward.
The rail: From level one to level 50 your on a train ride and that large world feeling is gone, there is no exploring really. Areas felt small to me and I was always aware of my bounderies. There was no" OOH I wonder whats on the other side of that mountain", because there was nothing there and you knew it.
PvP: open world gank fest and warzones were not in level brackets. You are buffed in warzones but you are still fonder for anyone 20+ levels above you. Nothing like a casual player getting stuck at level 20 aginst 3 hard core level 50s in a warzone, that can get old real fast.
Why Group? 80% of the content is solo and another 10% is solo if you wait a few more levels or are playing one of the super classes. (SI or JC)
I missed the whole WoW thing becuase I played it for a couple months close to its release got to level 50 and went to EQ2 because it was just to easy, this game is almost the same but the class stories are way better. (plus its Star Wars)
The three C's
Customization: Just not enough (many in the beta called it Clone Wars) Not enough armor/clothes styles, no trophies, can not decorate your ships interior. lack of faces and hair styles, just really lacking.
Crafting: No real complexity and no real use for the items made (you can always buy or find better) No hard core crafters no long term MMO (sad all the new MMOs forget this rule and die because of it)
Combat: they nailed this it is a blast
I fear for me this game will be a two to three month excursion then get deleted like Rift, AoC, War Hammer and Aion, I hope I am wrong and they fix some of these issues but as of now I am already thinking ahead to Guild Wars.
I really enjoyed my time in beta. I love how Iam not soley dependant on others to do things. in wow where there are so many others i still felt alone alot of the time. It seems as of lately in wow you que for a group and wait a long time if a dps class to only have the tank/healer leave the group ipon entering because they dont like the makeup of the group. Of course I would rather group with other real people but atleast now im not wholey at their will. Yea some stuff needs a little tweaking but im liking it
You make a lot of excellent points. The whole being-on-rails experience is something that I'm not fond of. Also, the lack of features that are considered standard in any MMO coming out today (custom UI, guild tools) not being implemented are really baffling. I think TOR is a solid game, but it could be a lot more.
When the Oceanic servers and free tranfers come through next month I reckon I'll be putting my sub on hold for a while. I'm not enjoying TOR as much I think I could if certain things weren't ironed out first.
...things I say...
All of my friends who bought the game have now cancelled their subscriptions. In their opinion, there wasn't anything that grabbed them and made them want to play TOR as opposed to the games they normally play.
I'm still playing and paying but its becoming harder and harder for me to keep doing it. Its just... well, boring.
Posting And You...
With Patch 1.2 looking like it's holding a decent amount of stuff I'm probably hold onto my subscription at least until then. I was not to pleased to see a smuggler using force choke, a little fast and loose with the lore for me.
Well I canceled after reading Electronic Arts reveals new Mass Effect 3 and Star Wars online numbers. This would hardly be the first time a CEO has "exaggerated" to protect his job or ego and I'm sure it won't be the last. I'm just tired of them assuming we're stupid.
On March 8th John stated that TOR has "1.7M active subscribers." Even the article states that it appears nothing much has changed. Then we get the spin about the "vast majority" being passed the first thirty days. So what? Back on February 1st John said they had 1.7 million "active" units.
Did no one buy the game in February?
Didn't this "most successful MMO through this period in the history of the industry" open up in four new markets on the 29th? They chose to bring up ME3's sales "estimates" a day or two after it launches and talk about TOR's "actives," but not one whisper about TOR's sales?
Not to mention the whole "most successful" comment is pretty silly. World of Warcraft launched in November of 2004 and had phenomenal growth for months. Including the months John is talking about. I watched the seemingly endless flood of new players swamping the servers.
A very different experience compared to the first couple of months in TOR.
So, "history of the industry?" Hardly.
Going from 1.7 to... 1.7 isn't growth. This isn't the second or third year of TOR. Its the second or third month. This pay-to-play mutliplayer game, which cost almost two hundred to make, has already peaked? Well 1.7 million may be paying but it certainly doesn't seem like they are playing.
That's when it hit me. I'm one of those paying but not playing. I'm one of those 1.7 million. I'm not part of the solution by helping John pretend TOR is doing great. I'm part of the problem. So yesterday I canceled my account.
I don't hate this game. It is just a game after all and its not like we haven't seen this same scenario play out over and over again in the last five plus years. However, I do not like hype and spin and John's comment about TOR in yesterday's article reeked of both.
Posting And You...
i cant envisage a scenario where something somebody writes about the sales figures of a particular game would make me so upset i stopped playing.
they could try to tell us they are selling millions to green men on the moon and i wouldnt give a toss. Why should i care who else buys the game or not?
or lose sleep over its relative place in the historical top ten of MMORPG's
my life is full of things i concern myself about ,, these sort of issues are not among them.
the man who asks questions may be called an Idiot for a while, the man who asks nothing remains an idiot forever
i cant envisage a scenario where something somebody writes about the sales figures of a particular game would make me so upset i stopped playing.
they could try to tell us they are selling millions to green men on the moon and i wouldnt give a toss. Why should i care who else buys the game or not?
or lose sleep over its relative place in the historical top ten of MMORPG's
my life is full of things i concern myself about ,, these sort of issues are not among them.
the man who asks questions may be called an Idiot for a while, the man who asks nothing remains an idiot forever
Oh I was on a downward spiral already. Johnny 5's comment was simply the last straw.
Posting And You...
[quote=SirRobin]
Oh I was on a downward spiral already. Johnny 5's comment was simply the last straw.
[/quote]
Just look on the bright side of life! :)
Sorry, couldn't help it. When I read your comment while looking at your avatar, it just popped into my head.
DOes anyone have a spare Friend key they could send my way? Looking into trying this game out.
DSBakondi@hotmail.com
Appreciate it
You should be able to invite 25 friends total for a 7 day free pass to try the game. Details can be found here.
I'm also looking for a key if anyone wants to send an invite, joedsimon@gmail.com
[quote=azger]I'm also looking for a key if anyone wants to send an invite, joedsimon@gmail.com[/quote]
I'll can send you one as soon as I'm within range of my authenticator.
Add new comment